Burnout Recovery After 40: Why You Deserve to Rest

Episode 19 | Burnout Recovery After 40: Why You Deserve to Rest

Wine, Wisdom & Choosing a Softer Life

Guest: Dr. Rhonda Tsoi-A-Fatt | Ayoku Healing

Welcome to Wine, Wisdom, and What Now? I am your host, Yolanda Holliday, and I thank you for joining me. If this is your first time here, welcome. This is the podcast for us, by us. Everyday lived experiences for Black women over 40. If you are returning, I so greatly appreciate you. Welcome back, and thank you for your continued support.

Today, before we pour, it has been a day, and sometimes we have these days where nothing seems to go right, but everything is right. So today, well, let's start from the beginning. I decided I wanted to do something different with my hair. I have been wearing wash and gos probably for the last five, six months, and it is not good for your hair.

I've, I've heard people say it. I didn't really know, but it really isn't something you should do continuously. So I said, "I'm gonna try something different. I am going to try mini twists." And we all know that song, I Am Not My Hair. That is not my story, 'cause I am my hair. If I don't feel like my hair is on point, it bothers me, and it kind of affects my mood.

So I've done these mini twists, and they are boneless. I understand I gotta let them dry, I gotta let them sit for a day, but they are so thin I am going to give them another day or two. If I don't like them, I'm going to take them out and just wear it. It should be a nice curl pattern by the time I get ready to take it out.

I really, really wanted this to work out though because I wanted this to be my winter style. So I'm going to get my ends clipped, hair recolored or redyed next week, try it again, 'cause I'm not a quitter, and with healthy ends and more strategic parts, see if I like it better. I'm gonna try it one more time.

But just the fact that my hair was not exactly how I want it to be, it has thrown me today. I went from that to if, if you're looking on this, looking at this on YouTube, I, I probably look a little different. You can only see me from my neck up because I'm recording on my iPad because I could not get my mic and my laptop to work today.

It's just one thing after the other. But you know what? I am not gonna let that determine how my day will end. I am not gonna let that affect my day. I am still going to look at the positive. This is going to be a great conversation. I am excited that you have decided to share the day with me. I'm excited about our guest today.

It is going to be all good, and this hair is gonna work itself out. All right, sis, let's talk about what we're pouring today. This week's pairing comes from Sheree Harvest, a Black woman-owned boutique wine brand. And what immediately caught my attention about this brand was three simple words they use: Pour, exhale, and savor.

I definitely, definitely need that today. Now, tell me that doesn't fit today's conversation. Because today we're talking about the people who are doing meaningful work, leading organizations, building businesses, serving communities, and constantly pouring into others. But somewhere along the way, they may forget they need somewhere to pour back into themselves.

I chose this pairing because I think sometimes we treat rest like a reward, like we have to finish everything, take care of everybody, check every box, and completely exhaust ourselves before we finally give ourselves permission to stop. But what if we didn't wait until burnout to rest? What if we created space to exhale, reconnect with ourselves, and simply be?

That is exactly where today's conversation is taking us. So whatever you're pouring today, sis, pour yourself a glass, settle in, and give yourself permission to exhale. Cheers, sis. Today we're talking about healing, restoration, and what happens when the people who pour into everyone else finally make space to pour back into themselves.

If you have tried this wine, please let us know what you think in the comments. If you are going to purchase it because we have recommended it, go directly to her website. It is Sheree Harvest. Order you a bottle and come back and let us know what you think. I am always curious about what you think about today's pairing.

For those who are joining us for the first time, Today's Pairing is our segment where we feature a black-owned wine each week. Cheers, sis. I hope you enjoy. Let's get ready for this conversation

Today I have the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Rhonda Tsoi-A-Fatt, an amazing woman whose work across policy, nonprofit, and wellness has led her to this next mission of providing a healing space for leaders creating lasting social change. After consulting philanthropic organizations, government agencies, and nonprofits through her first company, The Mariah Group, Dr.

Tsoi-A-Fatt is now shifting to support the leaders of these companies who are doing the good work but experiencing burnout and fatigue. This project has been a long time in the making, and this January, Rhonda will be opening Ayoku Healing Retreat Center in Salisbury, North Carolina, for leaders and entrepreneurs to reconnect with themselves in a community of healing.

That is exciting. Dr. Tsoi-A-Fatt, I welcome you. Thank you.

Thank you for having me, Yolanda. I'm so glad we got connected on TikTok.

TikTok is amazing. You meet wonderful people on TikTok, at least I do. Well, I am so excited to have this conversation with you. I'm excited about your ventures and what you're opening because I know how much is needed, and at least from the space of an entrepreneur having a focus on wellness. Before we get into any of that, I wanna ask you, what season are you currently navigating?

You know, I am in a pivot and rediscovery season in my life. I have done so many different things over the course of the first 30 years of my career, and this is something that is so personally, meaningful to me. And so while I am building the healing retreat center, I'm also rebuilding my life.

I'm learning how to relax. I'm learning how to have slower days. I'm learning how to take care of myself in ways that I haven't before now

And that is, that is very necessary. Was it something that made you say, "Okay, I have to stop and slow down," or was it just you evolving through your career and through life saying, "This is enough. I now want to live that soft life and go into that soft space"?

So I ran, a consulting firm for 11 years, and before that I had done social justice work for nearly 20 years. And after running my business for so long, I was exhausted and burned out. I was tired. My body was breaking down. I was getting sick all the time. Thank goodness they weren't detrimental illnesses, but I was just always sick.

Like, if I caught a cold, I'd be sick for three weeks, you know? My knee was failing me, my shoulder was hurting, like, everything was just... And I really felt like I wanted a an easier season of life. And we've been doing this healing work with nonprofit leaders through my consulting business for the last eight years, and one day I sat back and I said, "I'm doing all of this healing work for them, and I'm falling apart."

Like, make that make sense, right?

right

And I just said, "You know, I don't want this next decade of my life to be one that feels so hard." Running a company is hard. It's hard work. You and I have talked about that before. Having employees and all that, I was exhausted and I was not my best self.

And so this season is as much about me becoming my best self as it is creating space for other people to learn how to do it for themselves as well.

Right, right. And for me, what I realized is I'm now in that space where I'm slowing down. I am not putting so much pressure on myself, but between the superwoman syndrome and now, there was like real burnout where I just, my body said no more. I just shut down, and I had to really think about why am I this way?

Why do I have to put the cape on? What is it that's driving me to feel like I have to make everyone else happy, and I have to do for everyone else? And that was a difficult season for me to just sit in and, one, be accountable that it's no one's fault that I'm showing up for everyone else but mine. I'm the one that keeps volunteering and showing up and burning out and doing all of the things.

And God just had to sit me down and say, "Hey, like, I'm trying to get your attention. You're not paying attention, so now I'm just gonna really sit you down." For you, did you have that season, and in that season, what did it look like?

I did. So when I made the conscious decision that I was going to close my company, it was really hard. I felt guilty. I felt horrible. As much as I tried to ensure that people had a soft landing, I just... The guilt just sat with me. There were months between me finishing that and then getting started on the healing retreat center where I just was walking with this guilt and trying to figure out how to let it go.

And I remember one day talking to a friend of mine, and she said, "Rhonda, you have to believe that the same God that you trust to take care of you is the same God that you have to trust to take care of everybody else, and you can't take that pressure on yourself. You're, you're trying to hold up everybody in this scenario, and you're not holding yourself up, and you're just crumbling."

That's a good friend

Yeah. Yeah, and that helped me so much. But then in that quiet season, it was difficult to sit still. We're so not accustomed to being still. And so I would come and sit in my office like, "We got work to do. What work we doing?" Like I'm sitting at the computer like, "What, what you mean?" Right? I was so not accustomed to having free time and figuring out, what do I do with that?

How do I structure my day differently? And how do I not feel guilty about the fact that I now have the flexibility to do that? My business coach, she kept telling me, "Okay, we've got to do something different." And I think I was surprised, 'cause I thought she was gonna be like, "Okay, get back on the horse.

Let's go." She was like, "No, I, I need you to meander through life for a few weeks. I need you to go touch the grass. I need you to go paint something. I need you to go find a park and sit in it and learn how to be still."

Yeah, yeah. Since you found that balance, how is life different on this side?

It is so much easier. It is a breath of fresh air. You know, I-- The summertime when I don't have to set an alarm clock to get a kid up for school, right? I found myself sleeping till 8:00 AM. Because yes, right? Like, I'm gonna sleep until my body says it's time to wake up. I'm gonna set my schedule according to what works for me, right?

So I don't take a meeting before 10 in the morning. I may work until 7, 'cause that, that's just the hours that feel good to me, where I'm the most productive. But I am setting a schedule based on those things, right? I am not sitting in front of a Zoom screen for four and five hours straight. I'm getting outside and saying, "I'm gonna eat my lunch on the front porch," or, "I'm just gonna take a 15-minute walk in the middle of the day."

And those are things that I always had the ability to do, but I never took advantage of it.

Yeah

any job that you work in, right, you can say, "Okay, I'm gonna take 15 minutes to walk outside." I just never bothered to do it, and I never thought about it as a priority in the way that I prioritize it now

And that is very common for, I can only speak about Black women 'cause I am one and that's who I have conversations with, is I don't know if it's we're groomed to be there thinking, groomed to think that we have to be there for everyone so there is no time to rest, or if we just put that pressure on ourselves to say we, if we don't do all the things at all the times, something's gonna fall apart and break.

And it is truly a, a roadblock that we hit. I'm hearing, just from different conversations, we get, it's that age 50. It's something about that age 50. We get to that age and it's like, "This is not life. This is not how it's supposed to be." And then we start rethinking our thought process of maybe I can take it a little slower and the world won't come to an end

Yeah. But think about it though. When you think about the examples that you've had in life, do you remember a mother or a grandmother or an aunt, do you, do you remember seeing them relax?

No, they weren't. They didn't give themself grace to. I they couldn't, but they just didn't

Yeah. And so it's learned behavior. We are trying to live up to what we saw in the women that we admired who raised us

We are, yes. That, that is very true. And although we saw them never rest, although we saw them, like, from sun up... My grandmother from sun up to sun down, always moving, always doing, always worried about everyone else. I guess we took that in as that's what we're supposed to do, not maybe there's a different way.

And then as we got older, we started thinking maybe there's a different way. 'Cause self-care just became a term, what, in the last maybe 10 years? Eight to 10 years. And it means so many different things to different people, and that's another area where we put pressure on ourselves 'cause some people say, "Self-care for me is taking a bubble bath."

Others say, "That's not self-care. That's just what you're supposed to do. Self-care is taking a vacation or, you know, having a mental break." Self-care for me, I feel like it's different for everyone. I don't wanna put a pressure on anyone to make their self-care look like my self-care. But for you, how important is...

What does self-care mean to you, and how important is it to you in this season?

Mm. So for me, self-care is not just the special things like getting a massage or a pedicure and all of that. It's the day-to-day things that I introduce to make sure that my day feels balanced. So it's little things like making sure I eat a healthy breakfast every morning, making sure I block the hour on my calendar for when I have lunch, making sure that I honor my boundaries for when I say I'm not gonna take meetings after 6:00 PM, that I really am not going to do that, right?

Making sure that if I have an opportunity in my day to go outside and take a walk, that I prioritize that. So for me, I feel like it is important to have those little daily practices in addition to the big things that we all love that feel so good, and that's what creates the sustainability in the self-care for me.

And everything you described is truly caring for self. And it sh- and it's, for me, I've always said it's, it, I don't have to put a label on it. If I'm putting me first, if I'm making sure I'm good, that is my self-care. So if I need a massage in a moment, sure, that's my self-care in the moment. But like you said, it's when I say no because it goes outside of my boundaries, I'm caring for self in that as well, and I'm doing it without guilt.

We have to get to a place where we do it without guilt, 'cause we carry the guilt of we said no, but then we spend the next hour questioning ourselves like, "Well, maybe I could have done it," or, "Maybe, you know, I could have said it a little softer." But no is no. It's a sentence. And it's not that you're a bad person, it's you don't have the bandwidth in the moment to do it.

So selfish is a word that I think we have been, I'm not gonna say bamboozled about, but I always go back to the story of you're a little kid and you're sitting on the floor and you're playing with your toys. Another kid comes along and they want your toy. You are playing with it. If you don't give it to them, you're in trouble for being selfish.

Why is that selfish? And we take that into adulthood, and we carry the guilt of I don't want to do that because it doesn't serve me now, and get labeled as selfish. That is such an ugly word because I feel like it's misused. It's okay to be selfish. I said it all the time. I'm going to be selfish sometimes because I'm okay.

I'm just as important to put me first. Do you struggle with whether it's family, business, um, social networks with putting yourself first?

I used to, but I don't anymore. And the reason why I don't anymore is because I really started to realize that that self-care and that prioritizing myself is what allows me to show up as my best self. So if I say I'm not gonna take care of my needs and I'm gonna lay my needs aside in order to do what it is that you need me to do, then I'm showing up at 50%, right?

Because I'm tired or I'm agitated or I'm ill-prepared. You know, would you rather have me at 100% because I'm rested and feeling good, or would you rather get me at 50% because I rushed to get there to fulfill your need instead of taking care of my own? And when I began to realize that, then I said, "Okay, yeah, it's not just for my good, it's also for their good."

It is. Right.

And when start to recognize that, then I think it shifts the conversation

For the woman who's struggling to recognize that, that's still showing up for everyone except for herself, if you had a conversation with her or shared some words with her, what would those words be?

I think I would tell that woman to think about how you're actually cutting yourself short. Think about how, you know, think about it, it, it's a marathon and not a sprint in life. You are limiting your ability to complete the marathon because you're not taking care of yourself. So now, instead of being here and being present and able to do all of the things that you wanted to do for 90 years, you're only gonna do it for 60 years because you've run yourself ragged to the point where you can't do anymore.

So think about it in the context of longevity. How much do you need to take care of yourself in order to ensure that? That's one of the things that's been so helpful for me, and it's one of the things I share with my girlfriends all the time

Yeah, that, that's very much a word because we don't realize, we, when we're showing up for everybody, we don't realize how much we're not showing up because we're tired or distracted or whatever it is. A- and this season, so similar to you, I, I started a business when I was running, trying to make everyone happy, and then I started a business in this new season where life is just, you know, on my terms.

I don't feel the pressure of trying to please everyone else. You are starting a new business right now. How does that feel different as it did when you originally started your first business?

I think it feels different because I'm bringing into it all of the lessons that I learned from the first time. And so there were things that I absolutely did not know about running a company, about how to structure things properly and all of that, that I know now. So I'm actually saving time because I'm bringing all of that new knowledge with me.

I think that's one of the things that's important. And then in this season, I'm also pacing myself, and that makes this feel different. I, in my first business, had huge, audacious goals, and when people came to me with new ideas that were aligned with the business, I'm like, "Oh, absolutely. Let's do it," right?

than taking the time to think about what is the investment of time and effort that has to go into these audacious goals, and will my life be out of balance if I set these goals for this short timeframe? Because I've still gotta be a partner to my boo. I gotta be a parent. I've still gotta take care of myself.

And so the thing that I say now is, if that goal means that you have to run at 100 miles per hour, can you run at 100 miles per hour for the next three years?

Right

And if you can't, then the goal needs to be shifted. So those are the lessons that I'm bringing in that makes this new business. You know, I'm not trying to scale to 5,000 people at my healing retreat center in three years.

I'm setting real reasonable goals that are aligned with what I want my life to feel like.

Right. That makes sense. And so I think that only comes from the healing because like you, you put, you give me an idea, I felt like I had to do it now 'cause if I didn't do it now, I'm gonna miss out. Whereas now it's, all right, well let me think about it and I'm gonna see how it aligns with the plan, and if it doesn't, I'm gonna put- I'm not going to say no.

I'll put it on the list for considering later, where I did not allow myself that. And I always say it's, I was operating out of survivor's mode before, where now I'm operating out of peace. So I don't feel like I have to do all those things. And I have-- If I don't, then the world's gonna come to the end.

I'm gonna miss out on that opportunity, and it's just gonna be so bad. If it's for me, it's for me, and if it's for me, it's not going to make me sacrifice myself to have it.

You're doing it on your terms.

On my terms. So tell us a little bit about the new venture

Yes. So we are building a healing retreat center. Um, we are, uh, currently working on the acquisition of land in Salisbury, North Carolina to do that, and it will be a center where we can do overnight individual retreats, we can do overnight group retreats, we can also do day events. So much of the work is really centered on this notion of rest rooted in joy.

And so when we think about the seven types of rest, how does that show up? So spiritual rest, physical rest, mental rest, the programming is going to address all of those things. So it is not just healing like a yoga class, but it is also, um, concerts and paint and sip nights, and opportunities to do stretching and, and spiritual work and, and all of those things that round out the holistic picture of what rest and wellness looks like, and educating women on how to integrate that into their lives on a daily basis.

So needed. So needed. What is it that, where does your passion for this comes from?

It came from the leaders that I worked with with our fellowship program under my first company. So we ran a fellowship program called Forward Promise, and in that program we served leaders from across the nation. And we started the program as a networking opportunity for nonprofit leaders. You know, bring people together, you get a chance to meet, socialize, et cetera.

But every time we brought a cohort together, they, the first thing out of their mouths was, "We're exhausted. We have been grinding. We've been working hard. We've been doing lots of work in the racial justice and social justice space to move the needle on outcomes for families in our communities. We need respite."

And so in hearing that, I changed the mode of programming to really be focused on respite and restoration of spirit. And that program, out of everything that I did in the 11 years, that program sparked the most joy for me, and I think because I saw myself in it. You know? I saw how I needed that kind of space and I wished that it existed for me.

And so creating Ayoku is an opportunity to bring that model forward and to continue to do that work, and to think about all the different nonprofit leaders, entrepreneurs, women in, in C-suite leadership positions that are sitting around saying, "I wish something like this existed," and now it's going to

That is, that is exciting. It's needed because I haven't heard of anything that is catered to those who just need the rest. I've heard of like, "Let's take a vacation and we're gonna go to a resort. It's all-inclusive. We're gonna sit on the beach and we're gonna rest." But to actually be intentional about the rest, to go through-- I didn't even know there were seven steps or stages of rest.

But to go through it, to learn it, to find better practices and that I can apply to my day-to-day so that I'm not going to burn out, 'cause burnout is real. It's very, very much needed. Where did you get the name from and what does it mean?

So, Ayoku is a Yoruba word that means joy remains. And because the leaders that I work with are folks that are constantly battling to make the world a better place, and are oftentimes met with opposition, particularly when we look at the way, um, things have shifted in the United States, you know, f- regardless of what political party you are affiliated with, there have been so many shifts.

The people that do racial justice and social justice work on the ground feel those shifts deeply because they are the advocates on the front lines. And so I chose joy remains as a reminder that even in the midst of everything that you're facing, joy still remains. There is still an aspect of joy that's deep within your spirit that you have to be able to tap into and pull on that even when what's happening in the world around you feels like it's in complete disarray.

Powerful. Powerful. When do you intend to open and what can we do, if we wanna follow the journey to grand opening and stay connected and make sure that whenever the grand opening is, we can support, celebrate, plan, show up, do the things?

So you can definitely follow Ayoku on social media. So across all platforms, the handle is Ayoku Healing. And then you can also follow me across all platforms. My handle is Rhonda Inspires. So we'll be sharing tons of information about the next steps and what's happening leading up to the grand opening.

And then we also just share resources and information for people about healing as well. We try to be a resource for individuals. As we're getting toward the opening of the physical, um, operation, I'm actually doing some virtual events just to, um, heighten awareness and give people some opportunities to experience rest, wellness, and joy, um, leading up to that.

So we've got a session that we're gonna do, uh, on grounding practices for women leaders. I plan to do a virtual session, um, the day after election day to really create a safe space for people to talk about their feelings coming out of the results of the midterm election. And then I wanna do a session in December that is about reflecting on the year with grace, giving ourselves, um, a lot of grace in how we look at what we have accomplished and haven't accomplished in the year, and not judging ourselves, but giving ourselves a soft, safe space to really reflect on and, and determine what we want our following year to look like

If there's someone that's listening that's not sure if, is this for me? I don't own a business, I'm not into social justice. Who's the target who is this for?

So I would say that's our main target audience, but honestly, it's just for us. You know, people of color, Black folk who really need to learn how to take care of themselves. There are nuggets and things that we're gonna share that are applicable to all of us. You know, regardless to what career you have, especially as a Black woman, are n- in need of support and, and community.

We're in need of healing spaces. And so the programming really is, is accessible to and applicable to all of those individuals, and I welcome them with open arms. You know, I, I think about just single mothers, for example. You know, for me, a lot of this is rooted in my personal life experience. How beautiful would it have been for me to have had a sacred space with other single mothers when I was raising my young children?

An opportunity to share and just get support and feel like I'm not crazy, you

I'm not in this alone. understand, right? And I'm not the only one. 'Cause a lot of times when, when regardless of the situation, if it's new to us, if we're unsure, we feel like we're failing or not doing our best, and this, we're doing the best that we can. So just having that support is so important.

Yeah. And so, you know, that audience, that it’s a starting place, but really I'm building this for all women, honestly. And the programming is gonna be wide enough to reflect that because I just, I wanna create a place where, um, we feel safe to come and let our hair down and not have any responsibilities,

Yes

and somebody else is taking care of the thing, you know?

I get to serve you a meal. I get to make sure that you feel good. Kick your feet up, sis, and have a good time. Like, that's really what I wanna create

And needed, so thank you for doing it. I, I know as an entrepreneur, we have these big goals, we have these big dreams, and then we're so heads down in the execution of it, we don't stop to celebrate ourselves. So I celebrate you because, again, the community of us is very important to me, and this and others, it's very much needed.

Like, we don't have outlets. No one's focusing on us. We're considered the strong ones, so we don't get the attention. We don't get the support because we're considered to be the ones that always have it together, 'cause we put our poker face on and we push through. But inside, we're breaking, we're tired, we feel defeated, we feel...

And we don't have that safe space to actually say those things. So this, whether it's for a day or a weekend or a couple of days during the week, gives you the space to actually just woosah and be real with yourself. Even if you're not real with anyone else, be real with yourself because it, it get, it gets heavy.

It gets heavy.

It does. It does. You know, I think about all my girlfriends who have businesses and are taking this entrepreneurial journey, and I think about the courage that it takes, and I think about the highs and lows of it all. I, you know, cer- I know for me, the sleepless nights when the lows came, I was like, "Ah." To be able to have people that you can talk to about that and to be able to learn how do I navigate these lows in a way that doesn't crush my spirit and crush my confidence and doesn't leave me feeling physically and mentally depleted, that is so important

And just to have that safe space because you can have that person... If you're an entrepreneur, we think differently. To speak to someone who believes wholeheartedly in the 9:00 to 5:00, there's nothing wrong with that, but they don't understand it, so in some cases you feel judged, not heard, or, you know, it's just not what you're looking for, so then you shut back down.

But to have a community of people who actually understand it, that's where the importance of it comes in for-

Yeah. Yeah

I am excited. Is there anything you wanna leave us with, say to the women that's listening, final thoughts?

Hmm. Oh my goodness. There's so much. There's so much. Um, I, you know, I, I want particularly women in our age group to hear me say that it is okay to want this slower, easier, more paced and balanced life. It's okay. It is not, it, it's not a, a stain on your character. It's not a, a negative thing. You have run and run and run and run, and it is okay to now seek balance and to seek a life that feeds you as much as you feed everybody else

Someone needs to hear that. And I think that when you're in the race of doing it all and not living a soft life, you don't even realize you need to hear it. I didn't realize it. You don't even realize you need to hear it. But when you go through that transition of it doesn't feel right, you're burnt out, these are the words you need to hear.

It's going to be okay. Like, the world is not going to stop. Everything is not gonna fall apart because you take a break

Mm-hmm.

I see collaboration in our future, so I'm not gonna say this is gonna be our last conversation. I see so much. I greatly, greatly, greatly appreciate you for coming, for sharing, for your journey, because your journey is selfless.

Although you are in your slow season, you are in the season of your healed version of yourself, you are thinking about others and opening that space so that others can either get there, or those that are there can celebrate themselves in that moment. So that is very selfless, very much needed, and very much appreciated, so I thank you

Thank you. I really appreciate that. It's important when we take on these things to, um, to be affirmed, and I am so grateful whenever a woman affirms me for what it is that I'm trying to do. And I agree, I see partnership in our future. I am really... I feel fortunate that we have met, and I also feel like it wasn't by accident, and I'm looking forward to us saying, "Okay, now let's go to brunch."

I'm ready. I'm, I'm always ready for a good brunch as long know, it's gonna have to be Saturday during football season, 'cause I'm a diehard football fan. But after football season, I'm back to Sundays.

Okay.

Again, I thank you. The best part about recording this podcast is connecting with some amazing Black women. I love it. It motivates me. It encourages me. I so appreciate Dr. Rhonda Tsoi-A-Fatt for bringing all of her wonderfulness into this conversation. It was a great conversation. I'm excited for her ventures, her new journey.

I am looking forward to supporting in any way I can. I hope that this conversation has made you ask yourself, "Am I getting the rest I deserve? Am I giving myself permission to rest?" Affirming to yourself, "I deserve to rest. The world, my life, my family, my friends, my career, my business is not going to fall apart because I take a moment for self."

This has been an amazing conversation. I thank you for joining us and sharing this conversation with us. It does not have to stop here. If you are in the circle, join us over at the podcast lounge and let's continue the conversation. If you have questions, you wanna reach out, please email me questions at questions@winewisdomwhatnow.com.

As Rhonda mentioned, she is on all social platforms @rhondainspires. She is open. DM her. Ask her any questions you may have. I'm asking you, please join our newsletter, check out our website. Check out all the things that are happening with Curated Living and the Wine Wisdom What Now? podcast. Websites are www.curatedlivingbyyh.com and www.winewisdomwhatnow.com.

We have a newsletter that produces a podcast summary every Tuesday, and I give my reflections, my thoughts every Friday. We do not spam you. I feel, and I may be biased, it is great information, so visit our website and join the newsletter. I, I think it will be beneficial. I thank you for joining. If no one has told you, you are amazing.

You are doing amazing things. Give yourself grace, permission to rest. We meet here every Tuesday at 6:00 AM. A new episode releases every Tuesday at 6:00 AM. I wish you the most amazing week ever, and until next week, have a amazing time. I'll see you here in a week